What is required to start Google, Facebook in Nepal?

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kazi
Posts: 978
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:55 am

Re: What is required to start Google, Facebook in Nepal?

Postby kazi » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:33 am

@aapam, once again, I really appeciate your sharing a book. I really like the concise style of the author. But I have to admit I do not agree with all the content. And I do not understand what central point the author is trying to make, if any at all. If we were having a conversation, the first question I'd ask is, "With all due respects, what the hell is your point?"

About what you said on freedom, once again, I do not think there is a general definition of freedom applicable to all people, all situations. I think there is a contextual dimension as well as a temporal dimension when we talk about definitions. And if that is true, two ideas can reach a resolution when the contexts and times are on the same page.

About governments, I think your ideas are influenced to some extent by Bastiat's negative connotation of the law. I think, in the ideal situation, the government is of the people, by the people, and, for the people. And therefore, the government and the people are one. The law is there to protect, and, not to restrict. In short, I think law is a positive thing, a good thing. And like anything, there is not good or bad.. only perspective.

In another thread, I had once written my brief definitions of types of governments, which one may agree with or disagree:
As non-native English speakers, the words federation, democracy and republic have specific meaning for us. Federation means that there is a hierarchical distribution of power. Democracy means that the decision-making is done by representatives from demographic groups. Republic means that the public empowers its representatives to make specific decisions.


The simplest way I comprehend big issues is to create simpler models. In this case, I compare it to a small family where there is parents and children. The temporal dimensions are analogous to the growth of the child. The government is the parents and the children are the people. Initially strict discipline is required for the child. But as the child grows and matures, the role of governance makes a transformation.. in fact this is dynamically transforming environment. Discipline is the key to a healthy family until the basic morality is set. Thereafter, growth and prosperity is encouraged with liberality. And hopefully, some day the children will strong enough to support their parents. Isn't that similar to governments and nations?

Now about Nepal. I think we are in the process of transformation. We are an adolescent nation trying to become adults and yet still hold on to vestiges of instability and flippancy. In spite of the frustrations and resentment, this is our family, our country. We hold on to hope as if our existence, our success depends on the success of our people. Of course there is a possibility that our children will remain worthless bums, but there is also the hope that our children will rise up to the occasion and build a nation, utilize its limited resources, and become a model of success.
--
"Mother and motherland are more precious than heaven." But that does not mean we must cling to our mothers. The least I can do for Nepal is to bring awareness among the Nepali people. And this Nepali forum is the platform for me.

aapam
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Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 7:51 pm

Re: What is required to start Google, Facebook in Nepal?

Postby aapam » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:34 pm

@kazi:

I would like to share with you this essay on "Liberty Vs Democracy" www.fee.org/pdf/the-freeman/July-Aug%2006%20Bovard.pdf which will eloquently explain to you "What the hell I am talking about?" I just request you to open your eyes, and have courage to lead yourself wherever truth and reasoning will lead you, even if it is against what you have thought or believed to be true...


I would strongly disagree with your model of government where you consider government as parents and citizens as children. In your model, a 70 yr old very intellectual citizen, university scholar.... is still a kid in front of government and he should obey whatever government says...... just think of yourself and just think what is the moral standard of the people who are in the government......


My model of government is this: We were born free and independent. We have no morally have rights to obstruct any one's freedom and independence. The job of government is only to protect the rights of individuals remaining within the confine of constitution enacting through the law of the land and with due process.. .... Your model is more slanted towards police state or like communist state..... where power is concentrated in the state or your thought about government is described as "STATISM " (eveything should be done by the state, ) for lack of better word.

kazi
Posts: 978
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Re: What is required to start Google, Facebook in Nepal?

Postby kazi » Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:15 pm

Yes, this new article does make a point for you. And I am sure I would be able to furnish you with another article, another book, saying just the opposite things. But, for sure, that would not convince anyone, the reason being, both sides should be on the same page first. I think the basic question of what is freedom, what is liberty should be discussed beforehand. Therefore, just as I would ask Bastiat, I would also again ask Bovard, "With all due respects, what the hell are you talking about?" Because, as someone said, "Only death brings freedom." And even for that there can be no proof.

President Obama is one of youngest, brightest and most influential presidents of the USA, the most powerful and wealthy nation in the world. He is the President, and yet he is not the richest man and neither is he the smartest or wisest or oldest man. But he is the most powerful man in the world. How do you explain that with your model? My model is dynamic. Today's children will be tomorrows' leaders and that is the basis of my model. And with dynamism, there cannot be concentration of power. Therefore your categorization of my model is unjustified. It is not the individual that remains constant, but the institution. Barrack Obama was a citizen and rose to position of President, and, will again return to his citizen status eventually. That is the cycle of my family model. And that is what you might have overlooked.

That being said, I can see why you agree with Bovard and Bastiat, which is a perfectly reasonable possibility. But that is just one possibility. When you look at the big picture, when you come down to numbers and the net value, you will definitely see the positive aspects. And, with all due respects, I would encourage you to do that. Secondly, the central argument of Bovard lies on *coercion* by government. And if we consider a dynamic government, which is the essence of democracy, the argument does not hold merit.
--
"Mother and motherland are more precious than heaven." But that does not mean we must cling to our mothers. The least I can do for Nepal is to bring awareness among the Nepali people. And this Nepali forum is the platform for me.

kazi
Posts: 978
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:55 am

Re: What is required to start Google, Facebook in Nepal?

Postby kazi » Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:38 am

I've been an ardent fan of Google Wave, but development on it seems to have been abandoned. Here is an article listing possible lessons from this case.
--
"Mother and motherland are more precious than heaven." But that does not mean we must cling to our mothers. The least I can do for Nepal is to bring awareness among the Nepali people. And this Nepali forum is the platform for me.

sthapit
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Re: What is required to start Google, Facebook in Nepal?

Postby sthapit » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:07 am

Talent. Of course there are lots of talented Nepalis but the best ones are at universities and companies in places other than Nepal. And they're doing great work. Problem is they're only helping themselves (nothing wrong with that - the founders of Google weren't American either) and the economies of their host countries. I know lots of very talented Nepalis (and also talented people from other developing countries) who are doing very inspiring and groundbreaking work.... in the U.S.

Google and Facebook are not simple apps. It requires an army of very talented computer scientists, and also investors with deep pockets. Neither exists here in Nepal. Now if you were talking about some of the other success stories - for example Groupon, which doesn't need as much funding or PhDs (which is also why it's been so easy to copy Groupon all over the world) then yes - that would be possible in Nepal.

sthapit
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Re: What is required to start Google, Facebook in Nepal?

Postby sthapit » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:14 am

coincidentally my wife wrote about a very similar topic today -

http://www.fastcompany.com/1677939/chile-gets-a-silicon-valley-of-its-own

Ganesha
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Re: What is required to start Google, Facebook in Nepal?

Postby Ganesha » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:51 am

@sthapit: I think its safe to say that you are one of those who returned to Nepal. I might be a bit personal when asking this but the choice is yours. How do you think people like you can be attracted back to Nepal then? I am sure you must be having this sort of conversation with your friends all the time. If you could let us know the key elements of their refusal, we could develop on this discussion further.

With regards to harilo.com, I think its a wonderful idea that you have materialized. Team aawartan wishes you all the best! There are a lot of people in Nepal who want goods from the US, the reason being 1. availability 2. economical price. With many people using Harilo, I believe your extra costs (I checked the site) will go down and Harilo will thus become even more affordable for the masses.

One thing I would like to note is your addition of VAT on the price. By now you must have realized that hardly anybody pays taxes here and VAT is often cheated upon. With you asking your consumers to pay full VAT price, others who illegally import the goods into country might be able to sell stuffs cheaper.

With regards to the silicon valley in Chile, I think its a good step forward. Of course there will be problems but if someone so high up is convinced of the idea, it is bound to happen. This reminds of the technology park in Banepa. I think this park should be given away to the private sector and we could see something out of it soon.

About your wife, you are a lucky guy. She writes wonderfully well! Do pass our compliments. :)
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kazi
Posts: 978
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:55 am

Re: What is required to start Google, Facebook in Nepal?

Postby kazi » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:05 am

Indeed, harilo.com a really good concept that would really serve Nepali people. In fact, if it works well, this concept could easily be extended to other countries. And I have to say I really like the idea of using Amazon cloud services.

Regarding the Chilean Silicon Valley I would also like to point out that according to the article, such initiatives succeed more in collaboration with local resources like Universities.
--
"Mother and motherland are more precious than heaven." But that does not mean we must cling to our mothers. The least I can do for Nepal is to bring awareness among the Nepali people. And this Nepali forum is the platform for me.

sthapit
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:11 am
Location: Kathmandu
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Re: What is required to start Google, Facebook in Nepal?

Postby sthapit » Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:19 am

@ganesha. i don't thik it's very complicated. most people i know like it here in nepal but it's the obvious things - lack of water, power, clean parks, shopping... after a while it gets to you. what keeps us here is the people, both local and expats. very interesting people come through nepal and it's been wonderful getting to know so many of them.

regarding harilo.com - we're optimistic. but i think it's a behavioral change that people will have to make for the service to succeed. most nepalis who haven't lived outside and shopped online have no idea how bad shopping is in nepal - ignorance is bliss :) looking for options and better prices on the internet will come to nepal eventually and we hope to be the first to facilitate that shift.

as far as VAT and taxes - we're going to be completely honest and transparent. of course we'll take advantage of any tax breaks and loopholes but i'd rather we fail as a business than cheat on our taxes or otherwise be dishonest.

@kazi - we're looking at hongkong right now. both for proximity, prices, and the fact that it's an english speaking country with an active online shopping culture.
Last edited by sthapit on Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ganesha
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Re: What is required to start Google, Facebook in Nepal?

Postby Ganesha » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:24 am

... i'd rather we fail as a business than cheat on our taxes or otherwise be honest.

We are with you sthapit. Keep up. Let all young Nepali entrepreneurs know and feel similarly.
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